$1 Million Dollars Paintball Tournament

[SpazCool]

It all amounts to about 3,000 if you do both phases. I guess with a cash prize of a million some fees would be applicable...

[Sparrow 69]

You have just quoted the specification of the Bioval TSV system. This is a Military Training system. The Bioval TSV proprietary technology  is protected by international copy rights & patent.

Bioval TSV System: The Bioval Technologies TSV® System is a real time event recorder designed for use with reduced energy non-lethal simulated ammunition man marking rounds. It is composed of a number of transmitter equipped TSV® vests and at least one PC base station called a Tactical Receiver™. When a non-lethal reduced energy simulated ammunition man marking round impacts anywhere on the sensor plates the TSV® sends a signal to the Tactical Receiver™ connected to a normal desktop PC or laptop type PC via a USB port.
The Tactical Receiver™ then sends this signal to the Tactical Display™ via USB cable (or direct connection) where the Tactical Receiver™ records and displays who was hit, where and when, in real time. It is possible to view the recorded data as the training action evolves or to send it to MS Excel for After Action Review (AAR).

Did you buy the rights to use this technology ?

wow, anyone with half a brain can make this technology with a lasertag vest and some inpact sensors from radio shack.... who needs permission? they aren't marketing it, they are constructing it for personal use.

[douche bag]

Does anyone know if there will be a second paintball island or is it more of a, see how it turns out and go from there?

[Bach]

I'll add one more comment to your reply on the TSV system Sparrow...  If it's a military training system, there's a good chance it was developed under a grant from the DOD (read tax funded), If that were the case it would be under public domain.  Just thought I'd throw that out there

[Sparrow 69]

From what OPI told me, they plan on doing it like a paintball olympics... every so often, with teams returning to defend the title of best in the world!

[AnnieAngel]

Well i guess since the Olympics won't let us join em then i guess we should have our own lol sounds good to me.

[questioner]

WELL, I JUST GOT MY ANSWER:

P R I Z E S  C O N T I N G E N T  U P O N  A T T E N D A N C E

What does that mean?

1.  I'm not going
2. The promoters of this event have NO CONFIDENCE in their product
3.  The promoters of this event are on the fast track to watching it fall apart. 
(The fast track is what happens when they make grandiose promises, don't stand behind them, potential attendees begin to hedge, the cash flow doesn't develop as fast as had been hoped, in an effort to salvage things the promoters begin to cut services - usually without informing anyone, least of all the already paid-in-full, wind of this gets out, that negatively affects sign-ups and back we go again to the top of the loop)
4.  if television coverage was going to foot the bill, there would be no contingent prizes...
5.  I have seen NO restrictions on who can/can not attend;  if this is "for real", you can bet that the best players on the planet will get funded to attend, those players are on teams that have regularly practiced together and it doesn't matter what format they are most familiar with, they will win.  That means that teams not in the above category have no chance.
6.  Save your $1300 and buy yourself two or three guns or a nice international vacation... 

[AnnieAngel]

These are pretty much the same terms and conditions for pretty much any contest involving a lot of money....
It does not mean they think it won't work, it does not mean that it has already failed (especially since ur so convinced that every pro, semi-pro ect speedball team and their mom are gonna be there and there are a lot of em)
They have not once said 100% that it was going to be on TV they said they are looking into it and hoping it will be.
And for these speedball teams that have played together for oh so long, have u not been following how much those players keep getting traded to other teams? These teams except for maybe Joy Division, Dynasty, Russian legian, and trauma  don't play as often with the same people as u seem to think, and forget XSV they disbanded this year. if you want to be known as the best team in the world you have to play the best to earn that. and i dunno about you but some of these milsim teams i've seen have been playing together a long long time. Not only that if the qualifiers or the island itself coincide with one of their speedball tournaments they won't be going to this one. They are required to play in their speedball tournaments if they want to stay in the league that year and that is their first priority with their sponsors.
But hey if you're gonna have the "We've lost before we've even signed up" attitude then ur right u probably will lose. My team's goal is to just qualify for the island, a heck of a lot less stressful that way and u make ur sign up fees back + extra that way anyway. Plus We don't have to beat the best teams in the world, just the best ones at the qualifier we go to and that is a lot more of an attainable goal, plus it still looks awesome on a team resume.

[questioner]

"AnnieAngel" (might you be one of the Mahoney's?)

Your responses to my statements reveal how woefully ignorant of the real world of paintball you are.

When Kingman offered the first Spyder Cup (win 5 cars, the then largest prize offering in paintball), they too had no restrictions either on technology or player skill.  Many teams of neophytes attended, thinking that this was their opportunity to make a name for themselves.  So sorry, lots of teams entered ringers and a team with an all-pro roster won.

If you are carrying the flag for 'scenario teams' and are convinced that "they are just as good as tournament teams" (the teams you refer to as 'speedball' teams, making it sound like some kind of epithet), then you have bought into promotional hype and again, are revealing your ignorance of the real world.

True professional tournament teams are affected by trades as much as any other professional sports team, which translates into NOT affected at all;  let me take that back.  If they are affected by trades, it is to bring about an IMPROVEMENT in overall play of the team.

The 25+ year of COMPETITION paintball has proven over and over again that TEAM PLAY will win out over individual efforts EVERY SINGLE TIME.  It has also proven over and over again that so-called scenario teams can not compete effectively in a truly competitive environment.  This is one reason why so many 'teams' that attempt to participate in both tournament play and scenario play end up having lackluster peformance on the tournament side and usually end up playing exclusively scenario ball.

The only time the two 'styles' can be compared is when they try to get together.  The only time this has really been done on a national scale is at the Shatnerball games - the first to of which were rigged to allow the scenario side to win.  Proof is in the pudding:  when the game was no longer manipulated, the tournament teams won with very little effort.

I do not really want to compare the two as they are both legitimate ways of playing but your reply has forced me to. 

You are also apparently ignorant of the fact that most 'speedball' teams are the descendants of competition woodsball teams - THE PEOPLE WHO INVENTED WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO - and have forgotten more about playing in the woods than most current players know about the game.

IF THIS GAME DOES NOT RESTRICT ATTENDANCE IN A LEGITIMATE MANNER, YOU ARE GOING TO END UP WITH A DISASTER.

Finally - answer the questions, stop trying to distract things from the point at hand:  WHERE IS THE INFORMATION?

WHERE IS THE 'ESCROW ACCOUNT'?  If there is one - why is the prize payout contingent upon attendance?

WHAT EXPERIENCE DO THE PRINCIPALS HAVE IN RUNNING A GAME LIKE THIS?  (Zero points for saying there's never been anything like this.)  WHERE ARE THE REAL SET OF RULES?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PREVENT EXTRA PAINT FROM BEING SNUCK IN?  HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CONTROL VELOCITY ON THE FIELD?  HOW ARE YOUR SENSORS NOT GOING TO BE SET OFF MISTAKENLY?  WHAT ABOUT HITS OTHER THAN ON THE SENSORS?  WHAT ABOUT HITS THAT DON'T BREAK?  HOW ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM TURNING OFF THEIR SENSORS?

IT IS YOUR ORGANIZATIONS' FAILURE TO PUBLISH REASONABLE ANSWERS IN A PROPER TIME FRAME THAT ARE LEADING TO MORE QUESTIONS

[questioner]

As an example, here is a legitimate, rules-based question:

You are using sensor vests to record hits.  Why then is there a restriction on padding that may be worn by players?

Either the vest performance is negatively affected by padding worn underneath it, or the restriction on padding is an oversite in the rules (I honestly don't believe its because you want people to get more bruises...)

An oversite revealing of how many other flaws currently exist in the rules.  If a bad rule, contradictory rule or problem rule contributes to someone winning a million bucks, it means that it contributed to someone NOT winning a million bucks, and that million dollars is enough to cause a law suit.

If the vests are negatively affected by what's worn underneath them, I submit that the technology is not up to par for the purposes you are putting it to and use of them will lead to its own problems.

Have you all really thought this out?  Not having seen the vests (are they from lazerball? - if so, I've got LOTS of other things I could say) I can't be sure, but I will suggest that screwing with them on the field is going to be relatively easy - unless you post one ref per player...

Where are the 'lasertag' rules that state you can't hide your sensors behind cover?  If you can't see the vest, you can't hit the vest.  No shields?  That's your answer?  Hah!...

[questioner]

AND, 24 hours later, still NO ANSWERS.

I'll tell you, that certainly increases confidence in this event a whole heck of a lot...

I'll say this again:  anyone thinking of signing up for this 'event' - wait until you get some clear answers before sending your money in.  As far as I can tell, the majority of people on this board who are positive and enthusiastic have all received FREE sign ups...

WAIT UNTIL YOU GET ANSWERS BEFORE SPENDING YOUR MONEY

If OPI had a clue, they would have answered and shut me up already...

[AnnieAngel]

You know you really make me wonder why you're even on this forum. This entire time you've said and fought how noone on this forum or any other scenario or non pro team is gonna win, and how none of us should waste our time, yet you're still here demanding answers to questions about a tournament you're saying None of us have a chance at winning and is a waste of time.... So why are you wasting your time? Is it just to pick fights? Try and Make everyone feel bad? Bring down this tournament? And if you want these answers so bad why not go to OPI directly instead of one of the Sponsor forums where OPI is not on every day as it is not their forums. Did you ask these questions on their question form? Did you call them? if you didn't then why not?

And yes pro paintball teams even get affected negatively by trades. Dyansty is a perfect example. Year before last they won everything, with basically no hope for any other team. last year Ollie Lang went to another team, Dynasty didn't win everything anymore, they actually didn't do all that well (for dynasty). They managed to do well enough to pull themselves into first overall only because they beat Joy Division (Though still many players and people say they really didn't), if they hadn't they would have been third overall with XSV taking #1 in the NPPL. it was the first time in years that Dynasty even looked like it was going to fail the whole thing.

And as I said you gotta play the best to be the best. I'd love to play with them, see how they play, maybe get a chance to chat with them. and Heck if the game is how it looks like it's gonna be you may get to play on the same side as them, and work with them.

How come noone is worried about SWAT and military teams anyway? They do this exact thing for a living in a do or die setting. Do or die is a heck of a better motivator then Do or Lose you registration fee. (not saying if they lose they die... that's just how they train and execute these things so it would stay with them in this tournament as well).

And yes some of the enthusiastic people have free registrations, but there are some that have stated on this forum "Fully paid and waiting for my gun can't wait" (not direct quote but basically) and there are a few of those too, if not the same amount as the ones with free registration. My bro in law is going to be paying and he's excited as heck and he hasn't even looked at any info yet.

And by the way my idea of a fun vacation would be playing paintball 

[AnnieAngel]

These answers were located in operation debreifing on this forum:

-HOW ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM TURNING OFF THEIR SENSORS?
-Have you all really thought this out?  Not having seen the vests (are they from lazerball? - if so, I've got LOTS of other things I could say) I can't be sure, but I will suggest that screwing with them on the field is going to be relatively easy - unless you post one ref per player...

Where are the 'lasertag' rules that state you can't hide your sensors behind cover?  If you can't see the vest, you can't hit the vest.  No shields?  That's your answer?  Hah!...

(2) Referees will NOT be the most important monitoring device on the field. We will be using electronic technology to monitor players. This involves the use of strike sensors on the rear and frontal area of the player's torso area. If the the area is hit, the sensor goes off. Their is a transmission sent to the Command Center and the player who has been hit is immediately identified as ELIMINATED. The sensor is designed to light up and make an audible alarm so that everyone knows what happened. The sensors are water proof and are designed to stay where they are placed. Players caught without their sensor's on will be DISQUALIFIED IMMEDIATELY.

They state there that all vests are being computer monitored and they will be notified when a vest sensor is turned off automatically disqualifying the player(s). I am sure the strike senors require a certain amount of pressure to go off hopefully eliminating it going off from lets say a branch of some sort, but you'll need to ask OPI directly about what pressure these vests would be set at. And yes you're going to want to hide your sensor as well as your entire self, that's why they're giving each team some bunkers.

You'll also i'm sure find some answers here: (located just bellow the previous answer)
(3) A large security staff will be scattered around the tournament site and will be responsible for assuring that players do not try to cheat the system, remove their sensors, etc. Per the terms and conditions, player's caught cheating will be disqualified and may disqualify their team members as well.

(4) It is expected that Operation Paintball Island Phase One and Phase Two will be televised, however that has not yet been confirmed. Whether or not the tournament is televised, our own cameras will be placed throughout the site and to monitor and record from the MOBILE Command Center.

This next one was located in the tournament rules on the forum:
- HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CONTROL VELOCITY ON THE FIELD?

(20) All paint markers must be fired through a radar chronograph. Maximum velocity is not to exceed three-hundred (300) feet per second (FPS). Any markers that can be adjusted without tools need a velocity lock-down or "tourney-cap."

-HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PREVENT EXTRA PAINT FROM BEING SNUCK IN?
I'm sure it will be with their security staff the same methods they would use to prevent anyone from bringing alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, knives ect. Plus they get to examine your paintball marker and i'm sure they'll check for pods, magazines, or hoppers filled with paint at the same time.


Oddly enough and I got a great chuckle out of this. The first paintball game ever played was inspired by "the most dangerous game" which this tournament is also inspired by. It was thought up to be used as a game by a Stock broker and  writer who were fans of the short story back in 1976. A friend of there's thought up using the paintball markers used to mark trees and cows and they finally had the first game in 1981 (June 27) consisting of 12 players. This tournament is actually going right back to the roots of paintball with some technology thrown in and a heck of a lot more players  Even better the first national championship the sport ever had was won by Canadians hehe The Uknown Rebels from London, Ontario. Anyone know how many other Canadian teams we have going?

[questioner]

Well, you certainly sound a bit more knowledgeable about the game than I gave you credit for earlier - but you haven't answered any questions.

Yes, the Unknown Rebels won the first ever NSG tournament - and your point would be?

Gaines, Gurnsey and Noel included that story in their discussions of survival skills - the initial game was not 'based on it'; 

the original game was 12 people, every man for himself - not a team based game and therefore completely non-commercial and economically non-viable.

You ask 'why am I on here?'  Because this event is either incompetently run or a scam, take your pick and, unlike so many paintballers who get blinded by dollar signs, I investigate and ask questions.  In either case, its heading for disaster and not worth the investment of time or money that is being asked for.  And don't respond with a trite 'so don't go'.  I and many others have a vested interested in seeing this industry free from events that reflect badly on its image.

I'm doing so in OPI's own public forum because I am concerned for the paintball public and here is where the questions are being asked.  OPI can get in touch with me here any time they please and answer these questions for everyone all at once.  Instead, they have chosen to hide behind people like you.

Your statements that the answers to my questions appear on the forum is laughable - all you do is quote the same lame information - there are no answers.

The sensor vest can tell when its been turned off - yeah, just like the robot can tell when a gun is ramping.  Come on - if its electronic, it can be defeated and subverted and then we're back to the human systems which we know in paintball is fallible.  If the prize money is going to be stepped up a notch, the administration has to be as well and so far, its not.

Tourney caps?  come on - just how pollyannish are you?  Most markers don't even have them any more and the moment players hit the fields, all of the secret electronics are activated.  Remind me again - what century are you from?

Oy.  You know what's laughable?  That you think there's actually going to be an event, let alone that you'll be there...

[Rafiell Knight]

I want in on this $1 Million dollar dream. What I want to Know is it legal to use ANY RAP4 guns on this ?